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| What is an Alternate PARANOIA Setting? |
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| Silent |
 Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:28 am Post subject: What is an Alternate PARANOIA Setting? |
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BLUE
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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((EDIT: Originally , the topic was called "Alternate Alpha Complex". However, as the thread has veered towards discussions of "Alternate PARANOIA Settings", I have renamed the thread to fit this new topic.)
Inspired by Zild's thread about "What is PARANOIA" in the GM Meeting Room, I think I would want to see what is in fact an Alternate Alpha Complex. Once we know the general framework by which alternate complexes are formed, we can see if it is possible to subvert the framework while at the same time following the definition of PARANOIA.
Maybe.
Here's what I feel are key elements in an Alternate Alpha Complex:
1) Authority Figurehead. This could be as vague as The Government, or as specific as The Computer. But there is 'somebody' or 'something' out there that is the "public face" of the Complex in question, and it is where you receive your orders.
2) Hierarchy. You have a boss, and your boss has a boss. In the end, the boss' boss' boss' boss supposedly receive an offical blessing from the Authority Figurehead to rule over all of you, and so you must follow all orders...or else. If you advance up the hiearchy, you may get some people under you, but when those underlinings eventually fail, you may be blamed for their incompetence.
The Security Clearance in Alpha Complex just makes the Hierarchy more blatant, but there are many differnet ways of implementing a Hierarchy.
3) Secret Societies. Secret Societies, no matter what their name is in the Alternate Alpha Complex, are treasonous. They have their own agendas, and they frequently conflict with the goals of the Authority Figurehead or with the Hierarchy. At the same time, players may be a part of these Societies, and thus already are in big trouble.
The Societies may provide an excuse for players to wage war against each other, since the Societies give out mission objectives to the players, which often times include destroying the other players and going against the orders of the Hierarchy. If the players succed in accomplishing mission objectives, then the Societies give out awards such as weapons and IOUs. If a Secret Society also have a hiearchy, the secret society may promote them upwards too, allowing for the Player to effectively control a single SecSoc cell.
4) Treason. There is a law, and if you break the law, you will be punished severely. And the players usually are violating this law. This lawbook is used both as a way to hamper the Players...and a way for Players to hamper each other. It's a weapon that Players can use to shoot at other Players...and shoot themselves in the foot.
5) Special Powers. You have a Special Power, a "mutation", that makes you different from everyone else. This gives you a prospective tool you may use on your enemy. Said Special Power may be deemed Treason though, meaning it could very well be used against you.
6) Offical Enemy. There is an Enemy out there, somebody outside the Complex, wanting to destroy it once and for all. This provides a needed oppositon to throw at the Players to fight (The Offical Enemy's stormtroopers), a needed scapegoat for the Players/Authority Figure/Hierarchy when things goes wrong (it was all the Offical Enemy's fault), and it provides much needed paranoia (what if The Offical Enemy really is as all-powerful as the government claims it to be?).
That's about it. I think I distillied it down, I can't think of any other elements that are usually in an Alternate Alpha Complex.
What I want to know is...can you create a PARANOIA setting that does not have these elements? Can you have, say, a PARANOIA setting with no authority figure? A PARANOIA setting where there are in fact no Offical Enemy? No Special Powers? No Secret Society? No Hiearchy? No treason? Not sure if I want to touch these things, but I just want to explore the prospects.
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| Phial, in ARC wrote: |
| I know I'm a dummy but, I realised as recently as yesterday why the IC game is in PLN sector. |
Silent-B-PLN-6
Chief of Security(pending)
Works in: HPD&MC, Internal Security
Wearing: BLUE Jumpsuit
Silent-V-PLN-10 (deceased) Runs XAI Subsector
Last edited by Silent on Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Zild |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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GREEN
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
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Well my reason for asking that question was in part to determine the core elements, with the aim of ensuring they make it into any alternative settings. (The other parta were simply my curiosity on what other GMs think, and out of concern that I might have misunderstood the concept.)
However, those core elements are more core than the elements you have listed. Think of the former as "aims" (what the GM and game should be trying to achieve) and the latter as "tools" (the means by which to achieve those aims).
None of these tools are strictly necessary, but the more of them a setting has the easier it is for the game (and any GMs brave enough to try the game out) to provide the desired experience for the players.
For me, the aim of PARANOIA is to have players fearing and batraying each other, but not indiscriminately. For others, the aim may be to give players unwinnable situations and see how the cope. For others it may be to abuse players. For other still it may be something else or a combination of things.
Sticking with my own understanding of the aims of PARANOIA for the moment, I believe that all the tools you have listed are intended for just two purposes:
1: To give players reason to fear and betray each other.
2: To control players. (Of course, 1 is clearly encompassed by 2, but for the sake of giving it the special attention it deserves I have listed it separately.)
The Authority Figurehead is a source of activity for players, typically something they are supposed to work together for and, therefore, typically at odds with other sources of activity. It is also a means through which the player can be controlled in other ways.
The Boss may take the place of the Authority Figurehead in creating activity, or may sometimes create conflicting activity.
Heirachy is the carrot for betraying your friends.
Secret Societies are, again, a potential source of conflicting activity. They are also a source of power the player is not supposed to have, and often a secret to be kept from fellow players.
Treason is the concept of doing something wrong - something for players to hide and, therefore, something to cause them to turn against each other.
Special Powers are again both a source of power against other players and something to hide from them.
The Official Enemy may be a source of activity (a mission, either against or for the Official Enemy) and like Secret Societies both a potential source of power and something to hide.
Giving players something to hide is useful as it gives players another way to betray each other.
It should be obvious that there is a great deal of overlap between these functions, so if some of them are left out of any given setting the setting should still have enough tools to flourish. There is also the potential for adding new tools more relevant to the setting.
I think a key tool you have missed (there may be others) is Lives (Clones). The concept of multiple lives is a key tool in PARANOIA as it both allows a player who has been beaten by his peers to continue playing with ease and encourages players to take more risks than they would if they only had one life. It is also a good source of control for the GM, in the form of potential (if a little excessive) punishment. That said, there are arguments to be made for limiting players to only one life in Straight games.
Another key tool is the dysfunctionality of Alpha Complex; things do not go wrong for the player to punish them, but to control them in some way. For example punishment for unfun behaviour, guiding towards a certain destination (literal or metaphorical) or removal of an undeserved advantage over other players.
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| mungo |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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Service Group: R&D
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Without going back and quoting relevant bits, or commenting on what has been said before, I want to try to answer this question from the front of my brain. However, I like what you guys have said so far, and it's a cool discussion.
Now then.
Here are the key elements I think that would need to be in any alternate Alpha Complex.
1 - An oppressive authority figure that is decidedly in control, though maybe not as completely as it may think. This authority figure has systematic control over the citizens, but not a perfect degree.
2 - A common, hostile fear. This is what the authority figure uses to keep people in control - that it is protecting the citizens from something worse.
3 - Direct actions by the authority figure to control the flow and availability of information. This means what is told to other people, and what knowledge is forbidden to be known.
4 - Regular interaction with people who are more powerful than you, and can make your life very unpleasant. These people tell you want to do, and you do it or else.
5 - A system that provides the citizens with enough basic supplies needed to survive, but not enough supplies to thrive. This system is process and labor intensive, complicated to maneuver and difficult to change.
6 - A mechanism by which the citizens are well rewarded well for turning in other citizens who are doing something wrong, like keeping secrets or breaking the rules. This same mechanism rewards citizens very poorly for toeing the line, working hard and not causing any trouble.
7 - A complex set of rules by which all citizens are expected to live, paired with the collective understanding that the act of breaking any rule is a direct threat to the stability of society.
8 - A mandate that secrets are bad. If you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to hide. Therefore, if you are hiding anything, you are doing something wrong.
9 - Characters that start with something to hide. This means treasonous possessions, secret abilities, forbidden knowledge, having broken some significant rules already, and so forth.
10 - The ability for a player to keep playing in the same role after their character has died. I wouldn't have initially said this was necessary, but after reading the above comments and thinking on the subject, I believe this is decidedly one of the things that makes Paranoia what it is. I do not, however, think that this is necessarily the same thing as having clones.
I think that covers my thoughts. I'd wanted to stop at 6, but sometimes I get wordy. |
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| Aratos |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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Service Group: Power Services
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Firstly, I want to reword the question: the question is not what makes an alternative Alpha Complex, but what makes an alternative Paranoia setting.
That out of the way, I reject the standard template outlines given by some. To me, the requirements are less concrete;
*An authority of some sort who must be placated
*A conflict of interest between the PC and the authority
*A conflict of interest between the PCs
*A conflict of interest between the percieved goals of the group, and the goals of the individual.
Everything else is just a means to achieve and further the aforementioned.
The golden rule: Paranoia is a state of mind.
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| mungo |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Aratos wrote: |
| Firstly, I want to reword the question: the question is not what makes an alternative Alpha Complex, but what makes an alternative Paranoia setting. |
I think that's a completely different question, but I understand where you're going. However, I respectfully disagree. Ultimately it hinges on what you think Paranoia is about. If it's just a game about making the players paranoid and putting them in a position where they have to balance choices between several interests, then that's not really a setting, that's just a situation. And it can be accomplished in CoC, DnD, WoD or some other TLA. I believe there are other elements to the game that make it what it is, and without them you're playing a different game. It might be a great game, filled with tension and difficult choices and so on, but I don't think it's an alternative Paranoia setting. |
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| Silent |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
Posts: 2886
Service Group: HPD&MC
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| Quote: |
| I think a key tool you have missed (there may be others) is Lives (Clones). The concept of multiple lives is a key tool in PARANOIA as it both allows a player who has been beaten by his peers to continue playing with ease and encourages players to take more risks than they would if they only had one life. It is also a good source of control for the GM, in the form of potential (if a little excessive) punishment. That said, there are arguments to be made for limiting players to only one life in Straight games. |
I think you're right in that regard. Players must always have a chance at victory after being defeated, even if this chance is just an illusion. If you take that away, you'll make them upset at the game. Lives are the best way of providing that.
Another thing that I missed is Service Groups/Firms, altough Service Firms are rarely used in the offical Alpha Complex setting as it is. Service Firms are the "offical" and "recognized" factions within society, tolerated because of their use to the Authority Figure (The Computer's bureacratic system would collaspe without the CPU clerks, for example) It is alright to belong to this organization and support the aims of this organization, as long as you serve the Authority Figure and do not go against the Hiearchy. Offically, all these Service Groups work together. Unoffically, these Service Groups fight for power, wealth, and influence.
To put it bluntly, it is a Secret Society that everyone knows you are a part of and they can't terminate you for. You receive a paycheck from this Group and if you do well, you may receive goods from them. You may also receive missions from the Group...fun missions. That aren't treasonous of course. But might get you in trouble nevertheless.
In earlier versions of Paranoia, I remember how Tech Services and Power Services are in a perpertual Cold War. In one of my first games, I had a cold war between Armed Forces and Internal Security turned hot. And in a Flashback Mission, somebody was murdered during a dispute between R&D and Tech Services. Unlike Secret Societies, who at least pretend to commit treason for some ideological and noble purpose, Service Groups are only interested in grabbing a bigger piece of the pienests, and you're helping them out because you want the breadcrumbs.
| Quote: |
| Firstly, I want to reword the question: the question is not what makes an alternative Alpha Complex, but what makes an alternative Paranoia setting. |
Well, I believe you can have an Alternate Paranoia Setting that is not at all an Alternate Alpha Complex. I don't know how it would be possible, but I could see it happening. That's why I outlined what is an Alternate Alpha Complex, so if a person wants to create an Alternate Paranoia Setting that does not have any element of being an Alternate Alpha Complex, they can do that.
_________________
| Phial, in ARC wrote: |
| I know I'm a dummy but, I realised as recently as yesterday why the IC game is in PLN sector. |
Silent-B-PLN-6
Chief of Security(pending)
Works in: HPD&MC, Internal Security
Wearing: BLUE Jumpsuit
Silent-V-PLN-10 (deceased) Runs XAI Subsector |
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| Zild |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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GREEN
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 1814
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EDIT: Cross-posted with Silent, so this is predominantly in response to the previous two posts.
It is a completely different question, but it is by far a more relevant question to this project. So far I have taken terms such as alternative complex to mean alternative setting for PARANOIA, but Aratos is right to draw attention to the difference.
The settings we are aiming to create are settings that facilitate the creation and maintenance of the situation of conflict. Yes, you could set a game anywhere and give players cause for conflict, however the aim of the settings we are creating is to give the GM a number of ready-made sauces of conflict to draw upon - both in planning and on the fly - and also to give the players a relatively consistent context for those conflicts.
| Quote: |
*An authority of some sort who must be placated
*A conflict of interest between the PC and the authority
*A conflict of interest between the PCs
*A conflict of interest between the percieved goals of the group, and the goals of the individual. |
I would largely roll 2 and 4 into 3, and possibly 1 into 2 (and thus also into 3). But that's probably just because I like to over-simplify things...
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| Aratos |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 4640
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Mungo: let me put this in a better context.
Alphacology is an alternative Alpha Complex. It's an underground complex ruled by an insane computer, which sends spies to Alpha Complex. It was the main conspiracy behind a straight campaign I ran. You can find the pfd in the GM forum somewhere iirc.
Alphacology is not an alternative Paranoia setting. The two suggestions I've made in this forum are. They've got very little in common with Alpha Complex, but what they do share is a particular atmosphere and basic framework.
See?
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| Zild |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:13 pm Post subject: |
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GREEN
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| mungo |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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Service Group: R&D
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| Aratos wrote: |
Mungo: let me put this in a better context.
Alphacology is an alternative Alpha Complex. It's an underground complex ruled by an insane computer, which sends spies to Alpha Complex. It was the main conspiracy behind a straight campaign I ran. You can find the pfd in the GM forum somewhere iirc.
Alphacology is not an alternative Paranoia setting. The two suggestions I've made in this forum are. They've got very little in common with Alpha Complex, but what they do share is a particular atmosphere and basic framework.
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If anything, that just makes it clear that the questions are completely different. But I take the point that your question is more relevant.
I still think that there is more to an alternative Paranoia setting than authority and conflicts of interest. |
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| Aratos |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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Service Group: Power Services
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| mungo wrote: |
| I still think that there is more to an alternative Paranoia setting than authority and conflicts of interest. |
Well sure, but if we go too far in that then all we're doing is changing the names of things and pretending we've come up with something fresh and exciting. Which is just silly.
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| mungo |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Aratos wrote: |
| if we go too far in that then all we're doing is changing the names of things and pretending we've come up with something fresh and exciting. Which is just silly. |
I can certainly agree with that. |
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| Silent |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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| Quote: |
*An authority of some sort who must be placated
*A conflict of interest between the PC and the authority
*A conflict of interest between the PCs
*A conflict of interest between the percieved goals of the group, and the goals of the individual. |
One thing I worry about is that this would basically classify Triune, by WJ McGuffin (about the anti-theistic Hegomony defend itself against the universes of Heaven and Hell) as an alternate PARANOIA setting. Now that's not bad, and it goes to show how much PARANOIA influenced WJ McGuffin, but I do think he wanted to provide some sort of independence, some sort of difference from PARANOIA.
If only because if Triune can be considered a PARANOIA setting, then one no longer need to use the Effort system and buy the Triune rulebook, and could instead use the PARANOIA rulebook.
_________________
| Phial, in ARC wrote: |
| I know I'm a dummy but, I realised as recently as yesterday why the IC game is in PLN sector. |
Silent-B-PLN-6
Chief of Security(pending)
Works in: HPD&MC, Internal Security
Wearing: BLUE Jumpsuit
Silent-V-PLN-10 (deceased) Runs XAI Subsector |
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| Aratos |
| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 4640
Service Group: Power Services
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Well you could, but that's because you can use ANY setting with the Paranoia rulesystem and have it work by feeding in the basic mentality required. It just wouldn't be the same game.
What makes Triune a different game to Paranoia is that there are major differences. The fact that on the surface there may be similarities doesn't change that.
We're getting too bogged down in semantics here.
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| Zild |
| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2009 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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GREEN
Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 1814
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Okay, help me out here...
There are some people suggesting that PARANOIA is more than what Aratos and I believe it to be. I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing, but I would be interested to know what else you think it entails.
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