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| Is FC really Socialist? |
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| Big Evil |
 Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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YELLOW
 
Joined: 22 May 2006
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That's the tricky part, economicaly they're socialist, but socialy The Computer is very fascist, even forcing people under differant clearance levels to determine thier level of loyaty and usefulness. Albeit it works..
Ofcourse it's hard to determine Friend Computer's political ideology because
#1: It's meant to be a satire of political dominion in the first place. So ofcourse it's going to contradicting, insane, and have the worst of both sides.
#2: The same rules we apply to modern day politics don't apply in Alpha Complex. There's no gay marriage cause everyone takes harmone suppresants, there's no abortions because everyone is made through a test-tube, there's no war because everyone is ruled by The Computer, and there's no actual market place because everyone is simply an extension of Friend Computer who "allows" them to own a shop..
Alot of the problems and arguments that popup in daily political life now, are meaningless, perhaps even unheard of in Alpha Complex. About the only one that could apply is drug use, the legitamate anti-depressants Friend Computer feeds you, versus the illegal substances Mystics do to get a buzz. The real differance? None. Besides the fact that one has The Computer's approval and the other does not.
In some ways this is why Alpha Complex is a utopia, there is no debating, there is no "whatifs", the world works a specific way and either you deal with it, or fight against it and risk a very sloppy, painful death.
It's a dystopia in the sense that it's own rules can't apply to everyone at the same time, alot of it's rules have loopholes and spin into a wild circle of contradiction, and most of all the bizzare occurances in Alpha Complex do to madmen loyalty officers, desperate traitors, offbeat technology, and strange mutations.
Friend Computer is everything i'd want in a society..
It's the people that mess it up.. 
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| Aratos |
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 4641
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Who says fascists can't have asocilist economy? Fascism in Italy was totally different to German fascism, and again Spanish fascism was different. Mussolini said Fascism was a means of gaining power through violence, not a way of running the government.
As it stands, Mussolini was a good leader who encouraged employment and population growth, built up an army nad made the trains run on time. Hitler on the other hand, uh, encouraged employment nad population growht. I'll shut up now.
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| Infested-Jerk |
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:40 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 1060
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| Determining how aligned a country is within types of ruling styles can only work as well as you know the governing body of the country/government. Although we could say that the computer does thinsg one way or another at times, the multiple personalities really obscure the problem. |
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| Rickton |
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 1708
Service Group: R&D
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Not to mention that different sectors probably have different personalities running them and so could be set up different ways.
Maybe they're even intentionally set up differently. Perhaps a (quarantined) sector is specifically set up to be Communist so The Computer can study Communist ways, the better to fight them.
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| Infested-Jerk |
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 30 Mar 2006
Posts: 1060
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| But is the computer willing to commit treason by fostering communism? |
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| Rickton |
| Posted: Mon Jun 19, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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| Xai |
| Posted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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INDIGO
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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Service Group: Armed Forces
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Yes it can. The Computer is hypocritical, irrational, and incharge. It can do what it wants.
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| Rickton |
| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:08 am Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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But The Computer is the one who defines what is treason, and as such is above the law, so no matter what it does, it's not treasonous. It'll never convict itself, and if a citizen tried to point it out, well... 
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| Silent |
| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:20 am Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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Correct. Altough, I did remember that during the English Civil War, the King was accused by the Parilmenant of committing treason...even so treason was defined as going against the King. The revolutionaries did not care about this, and still convicted and executed the King anyway for his "treason".
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| Aratos |
| Posted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 11:13 am Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
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Treason going against the King? Nonono. treason is going against your country, and the monarch who represents it. The king was certainly breaking the first one.
High treason on the other hand, is something the monarch canot be guilty of.
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| Livingwill |
| Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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| I think Alpha Complex is strict Communist state run by a computer instead of a human and I think that is MEANT to be that. It is the ultimate irony really, that FC in trying to fight Communism sets up the most powerful Communist dictatorship the world has ever known! |
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| starlust |
| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
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| Big Evil wrote: |
maybe, but there's nothing wrong with that.. or is there?
Romantic traitor scum! 
Anywho, I always found it difficult to seperate communism from fascism, because they stem from the same basic need: control.
It suprises me throughout history to see the gross hatred between the two when they're not much differant. Take Hitler and Stalin, they both despised one another and only alligned when it suited thier purposes, after Hitler thought he didn't need Stalin anymore, he tossed him to the side, Stalin predicted this and in turn sided with the allies.
The only real differance between Hitler and Stalin was motivation. Hitler was a religious nut who thought he was doing God's will, fueled by hatred of all things not sacred to his God, pure, unrivaled, hatred..
Stalin was fueld by pure selfishness. Being a securalist he had no time for pathetic mysticsm. Stalin called Hitler a right-wing, but that was only because Stalin was so far out there, in comparison everyone was right-wing. The nazis were "national socialists" and socialism is in itself a left-wing ideology. To control and distrubate the economy evenly so everyone gets thier fair share.
As I always quote Nietzche, free men cannot be equal, and equal men cannot be free.
Left-wing (ORIGINAL left-wing.. not this American crap..) people were all about control, both economicaly and fundamentaly. Because alot of thier societies were ignored by kings and tyrants, Stalin's people were vicously starving while he had mansions and had parties with his dictator friends. There's no point to being free if you can't enjoy it. Notice in most other countries the "revolutionaries" or "freedom fighters" or "terrorists" are actually fascist in nature. Because their goverment just doesn't care. The only reason securalist and religious fascists don't work together is because they're both so convinced the other is wrong. (Moreso then the fact they think they're right.) As i've always said, "a fascist's worst enemy is another fascist".
Right-wing (ORIGINAL right-wing.. not this American crap..) people were all about freedom, both economicaly and fundamentaly. Because they're stuck in this annoying notion that somehow it's better to be free and miserable then confined and happy.. That ultimately things will solve themselves, and that no-one can truly appreciate what they have untill they've "earned" it, not been "given" it.
The United States has gone through pseudo-versions of these spectrums, the wild west was deffinitely a right-wing time, where you had to fend for yourself, and police officers were not much differant from average citizens. In the 30s/50s it became "left-wing" because it built itself on fear, uber patriotism, and rigid values..
The problem is we confuse these idelogies with American perspective, which is all messed up. American right-wingers want a secure moral line, but expect a free economic one. Like those coporate juggarnauts are not going to use thier money for sex, drugs, vulgarity, and bribe people to keep thier mouth shut. Corruption would and does run rampant. And our American conservatives act oblivious to it because they dare not compare themselves to t3h t3rR0r15t5!1eleven!1!!
"Liberals" are even worse, they want a secure economy where everyone gets thier fair share, but want the "freedom" to do whatever they want at whomever's expense. As if the wild west wasn't bad enough, not it's the wild west where everyone has the same amount of ammunition!
If done right, (if you can call it that..) a true communism would be like Starship Troopers. Where everyone does what they're suppose to do, to my knowledge there was no currency in Starship Troopers. and if there was, it merely played a quasi-role to keep people inline. It was like one massive ant-hill. This is why most often communists are securalist, because God becomes irrelevant when everyone is forced to cooperate anyway. Though if the commie himself is religios, it could be an added bonus to the ingrediants.
If done right, (again, I use the term loosely..) a true democracy (aka: anarchy) would be like Trigun. Everyone was assumed to be good, and when people weren't, towns people and vigilanties got together to form a union against them. Also the messages were very hippy in tone. Pacifism, tolerance.. *pukes*
However, if we leave it up to our real life systems, will just have either 1984 (where everyone is afraid and or abused/destroyed) or A Brave New World. (where everyone is CONVINCED they have freedom but really they don't because the goverment slips them orgies and drugs as little presents if they do as they're told. Freedom becomes a cheap commodity that is replecable with toxics and debautchery. If liberals keep gaining momentium, we'll see A Brave New World before we see 1984..)
Paranoia does a swell job of emulating both supposed uotopias but is neither one, hense it's a dystopia.
On the outside it appears like Starship Troopers, where everyone is happy to work for The Computer, everyone is patriotic and ready to kick some commie ass! Infact, I think the song that perfectly emulates the feel of the troubleshooters is Team America: World Police's anthem
http://www.angrynakedpat.com/wwwboard/messages65/1291.htm
On the inside though, it's much more like Trigun, where The Computer is unreliable, and people mostly have to fend for themselves.
Knives>Corpore Metal.
Vash>Agent assumed to be traitor.
Dynamites Neon>Death Leopard.
Nicholas D. Wolfwood>FCCC-P.
Milly/Meryl>Agents.
Legato Bluesummers>Illuminati.
Now immagine every unlucky but loyal citizen was treated with the same malice and distrust Vash is, exsept now immagine it wasn't nearly as easy to gain the people's approval, even after saving thier lives! (Afterall, it might just be some elaborate plan on the commie's part..)
Atleast, that's my intteruptation of Paranoia, and politics in general.. |
Hitler was an atheist not a religous nut. |
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| Aratos |
| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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RED
Joined: 06 Aug 2004
Posts: 4641
Service Group: Power Services
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| starlust wrote: |
Hitler was an atheist not a religous nut. |
Not true. Hitler was brought up a catholic, and he stated a belief in an active God on many occasions, stating on occasions that he was doing God's will, although he also had very strong anti-Christian opinions. Indeed the SS had belts inscribed with a statement about God, altho I don't recall the exact details.
He also believed he had some specially chosen purpose, a fact stated in Mein kampf. Interesting guy. Yes, he was a religious nut.
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| Rickton |
| Posted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
Posts: 1708
Service Group: R&D
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I'm not even sure what just happened there.
Quoting a big huge post from 2 years ago by a member who's not even around anymore to address a minor point of an argument that didn't even have that much to do with the topic at hand?
That's either the most treasonous thing I've ever seen, or the most loyal. I'm not even sure which.
It'd be even better if it had been your first post though. 
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| firedup13 |
| Posted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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BLUE
Joined: 08 Aug 2008
Posts: 2939
Service Group: CPU
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Didn't notice this old topic!
Had I read this thread, it may have helped me mold the scene when Hugh-R-DED-1 subconsciously answered this question during his Mandatory Sleep Cycle, as he thought of his beloved Alpha Complex, free from Communism... 
But then again, I think it answered the question well enough, eh? 
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