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| skwave |
 Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 7:13 am Post subject: Help needed with new campaign |
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ORANGE
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
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Well, I've purchased the new Paranoia XP book, read it enough, and have started to run the pre-made adventure within the book for some of my usual players. Note that this is the first experience that I've had with the setting/system, based on what I've heard in various online forums and boards. I thought that it would be a blast to run.
It was a total flop. There was no acts of betrayal, treason or any other things of that nature. No one attempted to gather any information or call someone a traitor or anything of that nature, despite my giving the players opportunities to do so. They loved to play their 'tics', but never attempted to look below the surface to other motivations for themselves.
They are actually dead set on completing the Computer's mission, and only that. Anything else is competely ignored and left aside. The characters are helping each other out at all times, giving their perversity points to help the other succeed at their rolls.
I am at a loss here. My players seem to have the plan of sticking together and ignoring everything else except the mission that they are on. Problem is, it's working. They are covering up any oddities that they may have to each other and to The Computer so well that there is no chance to have them ever to be considered to be traitors.
Now, I am no new GM by any means (have run games for over 12 years). Generally, the amount of teamwork that some of my players show to each other can be thrilling to watch. But this time, that teamwork is completly stifling any possiblity of making the most of this setting at all.
What should I do to alter this situation? What can I do?
We stopped midway through the book adventure due to time constraints, and I got the feeling that the night was a total waste for me.
I know this should be posted in a GM section, but I don't seem to be able to get into it at all, so I'm posting this here in hopes that someone can give me some pointers as to how to GM this game properly. |
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| Dag-O-BAH |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 8:42 am Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 43
Service Group: HPD&MC
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When I first played Paranoia, our GM took each of us aside, individually, and gave us a secret society briefing. This briefing set the tone for the mission, since we were specifically warned to be on the lookout for other secret society members. 'Someone in your team is a Communist. Root out the traitor and report them to The Computer.'
On the way back to the gaming room with the other players, our GM handed us slips of paper with our 'secret message' from our service groups. MIne was Power Services, and my service group assignment was like: 'Shut down power in Sector KED for at least twenty minutes at some point during your mission. We need to test important equipment. You don't want to get knocked back down to INFRARED, do you?'
These secret missions can be simple or complex, overt or covert, possible or impossible. It's not important that the Troubleshooters be able to accomplish these secret missions. If they generate confusion and conflict within the group (or even within the Troubleshooter!) then they've done their job. |
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| El-R-KIN |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:04 am Post subject: |
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YELLOW
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 458
Service Group: HPD&MC
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Some ways to increase rivalries are by putting them in situations where one of them will surely die - the question is just who.
For example - split them into two teams, using different vehicles, elevators, or whatever. Then say something like 'As you're riding the elevators, you can feel them shaking. Looking up, it seems as if an indstrous scrubot is spraying an acid of some sort on the elevator cables aternately. Looks like one of them isn't going to make, but which one will it be?
I'll tell you which one - the one with a higher die roll. Now, any of you care to spend some perversity?'
Or another way to break their team spirit is by nurturing a bad apple. Have some of them meet their SecSos contact. The contact will give him a pamphlet, and ask him to deliver it to another contact which the team will meet later on.
A few minutes later, they can see an Internal Security patrol arriving.
Slip the poor fellow a note: 'Is it a treasonous pamphlet that can have you easily executed in your pocket, or are you just happy to see these inquisitve IntSec goons?'
Ideally, the troubleshooters should be crammed in a small place, like an elevetor or a supply cabinet.
The IntSec patrol will tell them somthing about treasonous objects found in these sector, and will start a body search.
If the player has the intellect to hide the pamphlet on someone else's person, this person gets executed, and the player is showered with perversity (it should also make the other players suspicious of him).
If he does something stupid like droppping it, the IntSec guards tell the group they'll let them live if they'll hand over the traitor. The first person to get handed over is executed, and the one who blamed him gets showered with perversity. If they stand boldly united, they are all executed (but describe their slow march to the termination centre, to give them time to change their minds).
Soon after, put them in the exact same situation.
Another good way to condition your players is with a bellweather. Players are pack animals. If you can find from another group someone's who's known for his sneakiness, secretiveness and backstabbery, ask him to join your group for one session. Show everyone just how well do you reward this kind behavior (better use more bennies than just perversity), and that they are similarly rewarded if they follow his example. They easily should follow the lead.
Oh, and if a player isn't interested in his secret society mission, make sure it nags him through PDC messages, and later threatens to report his membership to IntSec.
Hope some of these help.
_________________
Clone number: 1
Status: Doing some final arrangements to the shootings of the new season of Teela-O-MLY. |
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| Gamefreak |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 10 Jul 2004
Posts: 138
Service Group: Technical Services
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Apply to the GM board if you havn't already.
Got to run so I'll post some advice later.
_________________
Current clone: Gamef-R-EAK-1
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| skwave |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
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| El-R-KIN wrote: |
Some ways to increase rivalries are by putting them in situations where one of them will surely die - the question is just who.
For example - split them into two teams, using different vehicles, elevators, or whatever. Then say something like 'As you're riding the elevators, you can feel them shaking. Looking up, it seems as if an indstrous scrubot is spraying an acid of some sort on the elevator cables aternately. Looks like one of them isn't going to make, but which one will it be?
I'll tell you which one - the one with a higher die roll. Now, any of you care to spend some perversity?' |
Now that one sound like a decent plan. That one might be able to work, perhaps.
| Quote: |
Or another way to break their team spirit is by nurturing a bad apple. Have some of them meet their SecSos contact. The contact will give him a pamphlet, and ask him to deliver it to another contact which the team will meet later on.
A few minutes later, they can see an Internal Security patrol arriving.
Slip the poor fellow a note: 'Is it a treasonous pamphlet that can have you easily executed in your pocket, or are you just happy to see these inquisitve IntSec goons?'
Ideally, the troubleshooters should be crammed in a small place, like an elevetor or a supply cabinet.
The IntSec patrol will tell them somthing about treasonous objects found in these sector, and will start a body search.
If the player has the intellect to hide the pamphlet on someone else's person, this person gets executed, and the player is showered with perversity (it should also make the other players suspicious of him).
If he does something stupid like droppping it, the IntSec guards tell the group they'll let them live if they'll hand over the traitor. The first person to get handed over is executed, and the one who blamed him gets showered with perversity. If they stand boldly united, they are all executed (but describe their slow march to the termination centre, to give them time to change their minds).
Soon after, put them in the exact same situation. |
Sounds decent, but knowing the players, they will either destroy such a pamphlet after getting it, or tell the rest of the party what they have. Then their team leader (who the party actually follows), will decide what to do, and then they would do it! That way, even if all of them would be executed, it would still be GM vs players, and not players vs players.
| Quote: |
Another good way to condition your players is with a bellweather. Players are pack animals. If you can find from another group someone's who's known for his sneakiness, secretiveness and backstabbery, ask him to join your group for one session. Show everyone just how well do you reward this kind behavior (better use more bennies than just perversity), and that they are similarly rewarded if they follow his example. They easily should follow the lead. |
That is my only hope at this point. Another player is said to be coming in who has played paranoia before, so I would hope that he could condition some of them.
| Quote: |
Oh, and if a player isn't interested in his secret society mission, make sure it nags him through PDC messages, and later threatens to report his membership to IntSec. |
It still would be GM vs players, which is not what I thought the goal would be, which is to turn the players against each other.
Although I do thank you for the advice, something else must be missing, and I have no idea what it would be.
On another note, to whom do I need to contact to be able to access the GM's board? |
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| Jan-U-ARY-31 |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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YELLOW
Joined: 02 Aug 2004
Posts: 216
Service Group: PLC
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| Have you tried explaining the situation to them out of character? "Hey guys, this game is really about treachery, betrayal and PARANOIA. While I understand where you guys are coming from, you're missing the point of the game, and I'm uninterested in running it as a team-based dungeon crawl. Let's discuss this and see whether we can compromise in some way, or if we'll have to scrap the game and play something else." |
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| skwave |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
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| Jan-U-ARY-31 wrote: |
| Have you tried explaining the situation to them out of character? "Hey guys, this game is really about treachery, betrayal and PARANOIA. While I understand where you guys are coming from, you're missing the point of the game, and I'm uninterested in running it as a team-based dungeon crawl. Let's discuss this and see whether we can compromise in some way, or if we'll have to scrap the game and play something else." |
Yep, I did give all of them the rundown before the game. I'll give it one more session, and go through the adventure in the book. If nothing unusual happens by then, then I guess I'll just have to go back to D&D, M&M and other games of that nature. |
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| El-R-KIN |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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YELLOW
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 458
Service Group: HPD&MC
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Players vs. Players, of course, is your aim.
But if they won't budge, your best bet will be some GM vs. players, masquaraded as players vs. players.
For example:
Note from GM to Jake:
"Want 10 perversity points? Just giggle, sign your name on this note, and send it back to me. MAKE SURE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT'S ON THIS NOTE, OR YOU'LL BE PENALIZED."
Jake returns the note.
GM: *mad cackle* *short pause* *some more mad cackle*.
That's a good one, and that's the sort of stuff I wanna see here tonight. Here are 10 perversity points to Jake, and he'll also get to choose our pizza toppings tonight. By the way, a primed grenade rolls into the room and lands near Tom's feet.
Jake: Wha...? But there was nothing on the note!
GM: Yeah, sure, nothing.
Sure, Jake might feel betrayed. But make sure he feels more betrayed when the others turn against him. Roll a die for each of them, but do it behind the screen. Almost everything they want to do it him will succeed, but with some reasonable failures. If they'll try to protect him, The Computer will intervene, and he'll be smart. He'll know what really happened, and will demand the other troubleshooter will execute Jake. If you need a plausible explanation, Jake's society threw the grenade to help him, but that's not really important.
It's conditioning, not antagonism. The shephard who's beating the last animal in the herd is doing it so that the herd will move faster, not because he wants to kill them all.
Well, maybe he will, eventually, but that's called debriefing, or gyros, depending on the side of the analogy.
_________________
Clone number: 1
Status: Doing some final arrangements to the shootings of the new season of Teela-O-MLY. |
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| Biggles |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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IntSec Goodwill Ambassador
Joined: 26 Jul 2004
Posts: 919
Service Group: Internal Security
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First off, did y'all have fun playing the game? I prefer a mission with LOTS of backstabbing, but ultimately this is a game and it's about having fun. So if the players enjoyed it, maybe that's a good thing.
Second, the others are right. Secret society and service group missions are great for creating the lack of trust and cooperation that you're looking for. You gave them a reason to cooperate: they know they have to succeed in The Computer's mission or else. Now give them a reason to backstab: they must kill another player OR ELSE.
Here's some other tricks that might jumpstart the mayhem:
- Make Perversity Point bids secret. Have players write down their bids and hand them to you. Then, you ignore them and do something evil. Let 'em wonder who was the first to break the trust.
- Promote one player to ORANGE, or demote one to INFRARED. Then set up a situation where someone needs to "volunteer" for certain death. Authority often leads to abuses of power.
- Start punishing players who are too nice. Take away some Perversity Points, deny them some snacks, or burden their character with Internal Security. IntSec doesn't trust clones who are too helpful.
- Above all, you gotta be evil to get evil. Plant a Commie pamphlet on one. Who did it? Who cares! Let THEM worry about it. Steal their laser pistol. Force them to use R&D experimental weapons. Send one player an avalanche of secret notes that say nothing. Start messing with their minds, and they should start messing with each other.
How's them?
_________________
IC note: Wields a laser pistol that talks to him through a tiny wireless earpiece. No, really. |
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| skwave |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
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| El-R-KIN wrote: |
Players vs. Players, of course, is your aim.
But if they won't budge, your best bet will be some GM vs. players, masquaraded as players vs. players.
For example:
Note from GM to Jake:
"Want 10 perversity points? Just giggle, sign your name on this note, and send it back to me. MAKE SURE NO ONE KNOWS WHAT'S ON THIS NOTE, OR YOU'LL BE PENALIZED."
Jake returns the note.
GM: *mad cackle* *short pause* *some more mad cackle*.
That's a good one, and that's the sort of stuff I wanna see here tonight. Here are 10 perversity points to Jake, and he'll also get to choose our pizza toppings tonight. By the way, a primed grenade rolls into the room and lands near Tom's feet.
Jake: Wha...? But there was nothing on the note!
GM: Yeah, sure, nothing.
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Sounds like a decent plan. Although I know that my players have a equal chance of either responding with revenge against the poor player, or if the player explains that he was set up, that they would believe him, and stand with him against any other efforts.
I am seeing here that conditioning is key. It will take a huge amount of conditioning to achieve the result here though.
For example, if I were to use The Computer to try and get the party to move along to another area, how would it respond to 'reasonable' responces to why the party is being delayed?
ie; the party is trapped in a transbot with stuck doors and are trying to get out.
The Computer speaks through the Team Leader's PDC and asks "Why have you not entered your briefing room?"
The Team Leader responds, "We are trying, but the doors to the transport are stuck, and we are trying to open them."
What kind of response should The Computer give to increase the tension of the scene? When that situation happened last night, all I could do was think "well that seems logical, and I guess The Computer would agree to that", so that was about that for that scene. What would have been better to increase tension? |
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| Disciple-R-BGP |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 80
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'Citizen, excuses are not acceptable. You know the risks associated with tube transport - delays, malfunctions. You should have chosen a more reliable route if you were not totally sure this method would succeed.'
'But, there IS no other route to Sector RZQ briefing room!'
'Citizen, could you possibly not be aware of the ventillation system? It leads directly to the briefing room!'
'But... but..'
ZAP! |
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| El-R-KIN |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:12 pm Post subject: |
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YELLOW
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 458
Service Group: HPD&MC
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The Computer can be creepily sane or unnervingly mad, whatever suits you best at the moment.
For example, in your situation, it could've used the following reasoning instead:
The doors were designed by a green clearance engineer. The troubleshooters are of red clearance. Therefore, it's more likely that the troubleshooters are lying than that the doors are stuck. Perhaps they could prove they can't open the doors, and are not curising about in their newly-stolen transbot, on their way to hand it over to their communist cell leader?
Perhaps this proof would include describing the transbot station?
What's that? Debris? There are no debris in The Computer's visual records. They must be mistaken.
The Computer is guided by Paranoia. If it was easy to reason with, life in Alpha Complex wouldn't have been so... interesting.
And back to my grenade-that-appears-out-of-nowhere plan: Say they seek revenge. Make sure they have weapons. They start to fire. Ask each of them to give you their real plans for the battle on a note, be it their true plans or not.
Hey, guess what? Tom missed Jon and hit Jake instead! How unfortunate!
If they are conviced, smile at the one who lead the inquiry, and award him with Jake's 10 perversity points. You want this guy on your side. Maybe even take him to for a little pep talk that would include letting him choose a weapon from the weapons chart in return for a promise to kill a teammate.
_________________
Clone number: 1
Status: Doing some final arrangements to the shootings of the new season of Teela-O-MLY. |
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| El-R-KIN |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:15 pm Post subject: |
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YELLOW
Joined: 17 Dec 2003
Posts: 458
Service Group: HPD&MC
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Come to think of it, it's Jack you want on your side. Say something like "Good! You got them believing you! You see, guys? That's the sort of behaviour I want around here. Suspicion and intrigue. 5 more perversity points for Jake!"
And then give him the "you're my special player" pep-talk.
_________________
Clone number: 1
Status: Doing some final arrangements to the shootings of the new season of Teela-O-MLY. |
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| Disciple-R-BGP |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 10 Aug 2004
Posts: 80
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On a second re-read of your post, skwave, I think a part of the problem may be your GMing as well.
No offense, it sounds like you are doing a great job. I just think you are being too logical.
There is a certain taint left by other, non-fun, RPG's which says 'never put the players into a situation they cannot get out of alive (or indeed at all)'
There is no such ideal in PARANOIA. Players are often (so often it is practically mandatory) put into situations which HAVE no possibly successful resolution (see my answer to the transbot's stuck doors)
I think your willingness to allow them to get out of their situation may contribute to their feeling that this is still, somehow, like other RPGs.
Try being totally unresonable, arbitrary, AND UNFAIR, and you might get a totally different result  |
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| skwave |
| Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2004 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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ORANGE
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11
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Ok, so being unfair, arbitrary, and unreasonable (and paranoid) is the key that I would want to hit to run the game successfully. That hits on one point though. What motivates the players to come back for more each time? If they know that they are doomed, and have absolutly no chance to succeed, then why would they even want to try anything, or even try the game again?
| Quote: |
Come to think of it, it's Jack you want on your side. Say something like "Good! You got them believing you! You see, guys? That's the sort of behaviour I want around here. Suspicion and intrigue. 5 more perversity points for Jake!"
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Ok, that's what I've been thinking about. In that example, Jake (or whoever) gets the old screwjob from me (the GM), and gets a reward for it. He then tells the other players that he got screwed over, and they tell him that they believe him. So then I would reward him again?
I assume to keep in the same vein, then something else would have to occur, with additional note passing between me (the GM) and Jake (the victim), and then additional bad things would happen to the rest of the party (minus Jake). That should get more of the effect that I would be looking for, would'nt it? Sooner or later, people would start to think that something has to be up with what he was doing, even if poor Jake kept insisting that he was innocent, would'nt it? Hmmmm..... perhaps that's the key. |
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